Windows Vista SDK (June 7, 2006)
**Chat Topic:**Windows Vista SDK Chat
**Date:**Wednesday, June 07, 2006
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity
*Introductions
**Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
**Hello, I'm Jason Sacks, the Program Manager for setup and communities for the SDK. Thanks for joining our chat, and sorry for the late start.
*Start of Chat
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**Mike: I'm not sure I follow your question. Does the Vista Dev Center Get the Beta page not show that?
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Could we get a quick run-down of what we'll need to install to get up and running with development? Installing beta builds can be like sailing into uncharted waters sometimes ;)
A: What kind of development are you doing C++?
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
** https://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/downloads/products/getthebeta/
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Yes, sorry, native C++ at first.
A: Actually the SDK has everything that you need (except for an editor). All the headers and libs are there as well as the compilers. Is that what you are looking for or am I answering the wrong question ;)
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**RE: UAC guidelines, I know tat new docs are being worked on, but I don't have a date. I can follow up on that with that team
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**Mike: No it doesn't
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**If you look on the Get the Beta page, there's a link that covers that scenario
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**Click on "I want to develop native-only applications using the latest Windows SDK"
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**You don't need Vista to use the SDK
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Can we get back the Visual Studio integration? I don't see why I should add SDK directories manually to the VS options
A: Have you tried the Visual Studio 2005 integration tool? It is in the SDK Start menu.
**LanceZ [MS] (Moderator):
**Keep those questions coming! We love to hear from you! They can catch up. ;)
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Can we get back the Visual Studio integration? I don't see why I should add SDK directories manually to the VS options
A: VSIntegrate is built in as part of the standard SDK setup. Are you having problems using the tool?
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: Are we going to see basic UI code samples (creating a window, basic GDI operations) coming back? There was a great sample that allowed playing with ROP2, which is no more. Some basic TAPI samples are gone
A: We are slightly at the mercy of groups outside of our own for samples. There are many samples that were cut for Beta 2 because they weren't fixed in time. Some (hopefully the majority) will come back for RC1 and RTM. Some TAPI samples are among these.
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: yes, but I just don't have the extra hardware here that I can dedicate to trying out the betas.
A: Understand completely. Just wanted to ensure that you know you can try out the SDK (non Vista specific APIs) on other O/S's
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: Can we get back the Visual Studio integration? I don't see why I should add SDK directories manually to the VS options
A: For Beta 2 (and going forward) VCIntegrate is back and will put the SDK directories into VS 2005 (all SKUs)
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: That's fine - I was mainly wondering if doing native C++ required any special VS extensions like WinFx does. No worries, I'll just RTFM :)
A: No, native development does not require any extensions to VS. You will want to run the Visual Studio Integration took from the SDK menu to set up your header and lib paths.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: The key question for me, when writing about WinFx is when the integration with VStudio will allow drag and drop for the WinFx controls. Where do things stand wit the addon for VS2005 and whence Orcas?
A: There is some support for Drag-drop of WPF controls in the latest versions of the VS add-ins for WinFX (Fidalgo). If you start up a WPF project and create a new XAML file, you can drop WPF controls from the toolbox.
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: I know that you have completely abandoned Visual C++ 6.0 (it's no longer supported) but if I sent some to you, could you make some minor changes to the headers that would allow them to work in VC6? (I promise they won't break anything in future versions)
A: The headers and libraries in the SDK mainly come from Windows and Visual Studio. You can submit feedback on the specific header and we'll push the suggestion up to Windows or Visual Studio (depending on header) and see if they'll accept the changes. I wish I could do more.
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Jason[6]: I think I might have installed the SDK first. IN any case - VCIntergate worked. Thank you
A: Great. Please let us know if you have any feedback on it.
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: Are we going to have improvements in the documentation for new Vista COM based APIs? They're not anywhere close to the level of quality of the non-COM based APIs. I can give examples if you'd like.
A: Yes, please do submit the feedback to SDKFDBK@Microsoft.com. Your feedback is what gets things changed!
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How backwards-compatible is Vista with older versions of the SDKs? Our apps build with a particular version of the DDK/SDK, and I'm wondering how likely this is to work with Vista, or if I'll have to tweak things to get it to build with the Vista SDKs.
A: The AppCompat team is working on several documents for this. I would also check out the https://devreadiness.org/default.aspx site, which has a lot of infomration on preparing your applications to run on Vista
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: when will https://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/library/ be updated to Beta 2 (it still mentions Feb Technology Preview)
A: We're having some issues with the rendering system for online. MSDN has moved to a new system. We're hoping to post a refresh soon.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How backwards-compatible is Vista with older versions of the SDKs? Our apps build with a particular version of the DDK/SDK, and I'm wondering how likely this is to work with Vista, or if I'll have to tweak things to get it to build with the Vista SDKs.
A: I am assuming that you are referring to unmanaged code? I don't believe that there have been a lot of changes to the existing APIs, rather a lot of new APIs have been added so the chance that an older SDK will work with a new Vista build are maybe 50-50. Is there any reason why you cannot move to the newer SDK version?
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: Anyone find the new Vista common dialog shell API documentation a bit sparse? (e.g. IFileOpenDialog) looks like you just took the COM interfaces and generated autodocs. Do you have any idea when these will be improved? The WINUI samples are good though.
A: I would advise telling SDKFDBK@microsoft.com that the documentation is a little sparse. They would be able to 1) improve it and 2) give you an idea when the changes will go in.
**Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
**djmitchell
A: Take a look at the devreadiness site and if an area is not covered, then I'll get with that team and see if we can address any specific issues you have.
DerekN (Expert):
Q: There is some justified grumbling about having to keep 3 different sets of documentation (2001 for VS6, 2005 for VS7 and new SDK). And the viewer becomes less and less usable with every iteration. I wonder if anyone is listening
A: the file formats and viewer changed between VS6 and VS7, from .chm to .hxs. hopefully the docollections going forward will just integrate, I know there has also been a lot of grumbling around here also around this subject.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I would like to re-phrase the question about VC6 . Why is it necessary to prevent recent SDK's from being used with VC6? Many feel that VC6 is still a better tool for developing MFC applications, and preventing use with latest SDK seems gratuitous.
A: From our point of view, it is a function of resources. We (the SDK team) write the integration scripts and supporting multiple platforms is just not feasable.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: It's unmanaged code, yup -- and I could move to the newest SDKs, but I'm going to be building on a Vista box and everyone else will be building on XP or Win2K so they'll still be using the older versions of the SDK, and we have one set of source.
A: Maybe a dumb question, but why do your downlevel developers have to use an older version of the SDK? Or are they using the old PSDK?
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Maybe OT, but when the DDK will use the latest secure C++ CRT? For example I cannot use the wcscpy_s in a user mode driver ... and tha's bad :-(
A: Unfortunately, it is off topic. Try sending mail to DTMsupp@microsoft.com or ddksupp@microsoft.com.
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Tools like OleView (that register COM components) require either being run as administrator, or need a manisfest that would allow silent privilege escalation. As it is it's not immediately obvious why does it fail
A: I just tested OleView and it ran fine for me. What exactly are you seeing?
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: It's unmanaged code, yup -- and I could move to the newest SDKs, but I'm going to be building on a Vista box and everyone else will be building on XP or Win2K so they'll still be using the older versions of the SDK, and we have one set of source.
A: The folks on the XP boxes could use the same SDKs as those on Vista boxes (XPSP2 is offically supported). The Win2K folks MAY also be able to use the Platform SDK for Windows Vista Beta2 as well, but that is not offically supported.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Ah, good to know that the SDKs are backwards compatible that way, that should make things easier. Thanks!
A: You're Welcome
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: [15] When you run OleView for the first time (and you have UAC enabled on the machine), it tries to register IViewers.dll and fails. This has been happening since at least 5242. This is on a freshly built Beta 2 box with SDK freshly installed
A: Do you get prompted to Allow registration? Are you logged in as Admin, Power User, User, etc.? If you'd like, you can e-mail me at Chrishu@microsoft.com and I'll investigate this (I am in charge of testing tools in the SDK, among other things :-)
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: [15] When you run OleView for the first time (and you have UAC enabled on the machine), it tries to register IViewers.dll and fails. This has been happening since at least 5242. This is on a freshly built Beta 2 box with SDK freshly installed
A: I'm running 5346 and it came up fine so this might have been fixed in the interim
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Reposting to experts: Will there be an update for UAP guidelines that were written for beta1 - I mean any time soon?
A: I know that the UAC team is working on this but don't have an exact date.
MikeM [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: [21] That's the problem. First things you see when you try to build an attributed COM project that includes SDK headers is that the VS2005 midl.exe chokes on the new syntax in the idl files from the SDK. So at least you have to retarget your Studio exe pat
A: That is a problem.
Tom Archer [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Tom[20]: It's beta 2 (5384) where I see it. Logged in as the account created during the setup (adminstrator). There is no prompt - just an error message
A: Please email me offline (tom.archer@microsoft.com) and I'll see if I can get you some help on this issue.
DerekN (Expert):
Q: Tom[20]: It's beta 2 (5384) where I see it. Logged in as the account created during the setup (adminstrator). There is no prompt - just an error message
A: we have a bug on this, it is due to it oleview trying to place that file in program files.
DerekN (Expert):
Q: Tom[20]: It's beta 2 (5384) where I see it. Logged in as the account created during the setup (adminstrator). There is no prompt - just an error message
A: if you move the tool out of program files you should not see that issue...
**LanceZ [MS] (Moderator):
**Looks like we have to keep it within the hour this time. Four minutes left to the chat.
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Sorry, that page is fine, I was just giving an example of an MSDN page with fairly recent Vista content. What I meant to say was that some stuff e.g. IFileDialog can be found on Vista SDK but not in MSDN. When will MSDN include Vista APIs such as that?
A: All the content included in the offline SDK docs will be included online when the content refreshes at windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com. We just need to iron out a few final problems with the site and expect it to be live soon.
**LanceZ [MS] (Moderator):
**Two more minutes and counting. Go ahead and get your last questions out there so we can them addressed!
Chris Hubbard-MSFT (Expert):
Q: will there be new SDK releases when new CTP builds of Vista (post beta 2) are released?
A: Yes, we will be releasing with the Windows Vista CTPs
Jason Sacks - MSFT (Expert):
Q: will there be new SDK releases when new CTP builds of Vista (post beta 2) are released?
A: We are working towards a June CTP release right now. We are debating whether we'll be doing a July release.
**LanceZ [MS] (Moderator):
**We're going to go ahead and wrap it up. Thanks for participating and giving us all the great questions and feedback. We'll schedule another one very soon.
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