Certification Update and Small Survey
We are almost locked on our Visual Studio 2010 and .NET Framework 4.0 certification track. Lots of discussions around this internally and a potential change in the landscape. At this point in time, it’s looking like the MCPD track will change and exam 70-536 will not move forward. That means there will not be a prerequisite for the MCTS developer exams. That’s about all I can offer into that picture for the time being.
My second reason for posting today is a small survey. Now multiple choice but simply a question asking for your input on something. Free form.
Question: What does the term Enterprise Application Developer or Enterprise Developer mean to you?
Looking forward to your answers.
Gerry
Comments
- Anonymous
April 13, 2009
- Understands whole lifecycle of a product : Analysis/Specs, Development, Test, Package & Deploy & Maintenance
- Can choose a technology based on scale, security, performance, schedule, resources
- Can develop a robust product (Layered architecture, Unit tests etc)
- Doesnt know all the technologies in depth, but can ask the right questions to arrive at the right solution
- Keeps up with the newer technologies and utilizes them to achieve savings for the enterprise
Anonymous
April 13, 2009
WOW! Quick response Ravi. Thanks for that feedback! GerryAnonymous
April 13, 2009
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April 13, 2009
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April 13, 2009
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April 14, 2009
Hey Gerry does this mean that the people who are going to give 70-502 or similar exams have to wait for the updated versions ? and do they have to give 70-536 as a prerequisite ?Anonymous
April 14, 2009
Sorry for not agreeing with the above, but to me "Enterprise Application Developper" has no meaning outside of the one it got from the corresponding MCPD. It may be just that the words are badly coined, or that my level in English is too lousy. But as far as I have seen there are the following profiles in a medium development team: -junior developer -senior developer -architect I think the current MCTSs are perfectly targeted at the junior developer, and that the MCPD Windows and Web are perfectly targeted at a senior developer. Now, what is the certification for an architect? It may be Certified Architect, but that training is something else. As a recruiter, I'd know today which certs to expect from a junior or senior dev, but I wouldn't know which certs to expect from an architect. I don't think MCPD EA is that one.Anonymous
April 14, 2009
Enterprise Developer and Enterprise Application Developer both refer to someone who performs software development. It's not for someone who's role embodies the overloaded term, "architect." I think you guys were on the right track to assume an enterprise developer is someone who can develop Windows, Web and distributed applications. However, I also believe it someone who knows how to interact with TFS for task management, builds, and SCM. I also suggest making the titles include more technologies that include WPF, WCF, and WF 4.0. You may also want to include support for developing parallel-processing apps for multi-core systems. That's my 2 cents.Anonymous
April 14, 2009
Pankaj, No, it does not mean you have to wait for the next version of exams. You can take the current 3.5 versions if you want. NOTE: 70-536 is still required for .NET 2.0 and .NET 3.5 based exams. It won't be required for 4.0 based exams. GerryAnonymous
April 14, 2009
I would like to add on to Ravi's comments. In my mind the Enterprise developer is building new applications or features for existing apps that interconnect with a myriad of other applications or services. There is a need for significant technical knowledge to determine the correct technologies to use to interact with other systems and to implement those technologies correctly. I agree with Geoff's comment that this person is much closer to an architect than a coderAnonymous
April 14, 2009
EAD - able to understand and implement an architecture given by the architect, implementing the right technology and being able to guide/help developers specialized in specific areas like UI, Service, DB, etc. can handle (understand, implement) all enterprise development technologies in all layers/tiers - WCF, WF, Silverlight, WPF, WinForms, etc. Scaling - load balancing, clustering solutions Impact of Deployment technologies like install, one-click, etc. on the application development Security - role-based, claims, partial-trust, etc Integration - legacy integration through P/Invoke, MSMQ, etc. Data Access - ADO.NET, SQL/Database Development, LINQAnonymous
April 14, 2009
I have nothing to add to the EAD debate, but I am confused about 70-536. When you first talked about it a few months ago it sounded like it would become an optional MCTS certification or perhaps a requirement for MCPD (a decision I agree with), but now it seems it will be dropped completely. Would you clarify, please?Anonymous
April 15, 2009
Hi Mark, I don't recall indicating that 70-536 would become optional. I think we were discussing it's future but that decision has been made already. 70-536 will continue to be a requirement for .NET 2.0 and .NET 3.5 MCTS certifications. Moving forward, the areas that are pertinent to each technology, such as WPF, WCF, ASP.NET etc, will be covered on their respective exams. This means that there will be no equivalent to 70-536 for the .NET 4.0 exam series. We are also creating four new exams for entry level in software development, Windows applications, Web applications and database foundations that will also help to cover some of the areas that used to be a part of 70-536. GerryAnonymous
April 16, 2009
Hi Edward, The biggest reason that we don't do a coding assignment is scalability. An actual person has to view the coding assignment. We are working on an automated scoring engine now but as you might appreciate, scoring developer exams is not an easy task to do in an automated way. Stay tuned for updates. GerryAnonymous
April 18, 2009
"We are also creating four new exams for entry level in software development, Windows applications, Web applications and database foundations that will also help to cover some of the areas that used to be a part of 70-536." This will be very exciting for beginners... nice decision... :)Anonymous
April 18, 2009
While I don't know what is the difference between an Enterprise Developer and an Enterprise Application Developer, to me, Enterprise Development is the counterpart to ISV development, i.e. an Enterprise Developer develops software for a specific enterprise's specific purpose. This might be highly scalable, distributed applications usually involving databases, but tend to have a relatively well-known and controlled install base, as opposed to ISV software, that is usually installed in myriad environments beyond the developer's control and knowledge. Besides features, enterprise application developers tend to focus on scalability, performance and, to a lesser degree, security, compared to an ISV developers stronger focus on managability and flexibility.Anonymous
April 20, 2009
Hi, I agree with most of the EAD definitions you all provided. However... I'm not so sure this fits a MS .NET Framework exam. I participated in the development of the 70-565 exam and sometimes it was quite difficult to map some of the objectives with .NET Framework technologies. Evaluating or designing a solution for performance or scalability involves a lot of decisions and it is difficult to describe it in a short scenario or even find good answer options.... creating a testing approach may not involve .NET Framework at all. I guess the "Enterprise Application Developer" term for the 70-565 exam was a marketing name to wrap many technologies that have a TS exam but not a PRO one: WCF, WPF, WF, ADO.NET... and so on. And I think the focus should be on these technologies... so, put the name you want to the exam, but make sure the content of the exam is PRO WCF+WPF+WF+ADO.NET... etc. And I'm not saying security, scalability, performance, testing, methdologies.... should not be tested... it should, but not in a .NET Framework exam... maybe a MASTER or MCA is better for that. Sorry Gerry, I didn't address your question... but maybe this feedback is also helpful. Regards, Rodrigo.Anonymous
April 20, 2009
Hi Rodrigo, All of these comments are helpful. Thanks to everyone. GerryAnonymous
April 20, 2009
... a small note on my previous comment. I didn't mean terms and objectives like security, performance, scalability, and so on... should be completely removed from MCPD exams. I think they are mostly welcomed in a MCPD exam. What I mean is that all these terms should be scoped inside a specific .NET Framework technology and not treated by themselves, isolated of any context.Anonymous
April 24, 2009
I am sad to see that 70-536 is being merged into the MCTS exams. Even if the topics were quite unrelated to each other the exam as a whole made a lot of sense - it proves basic knowledge of the .NET framework, without being tied to a specific technology. Merging the exam into the various MCTS exams is a terrible idea because the exam curriculum was rather large and a merged exam will not be able to spend as many questions on the many very relevant topics it contained as a separate exam was able to. This devaluates the new MCTS exams and makes them much less useful as a tool for recruiters. Additionally, students must study an even broader set of topics for the MCTS exams which will invariably lead to shallower knowledge of each topic, as most people only spend so much time per exam. Last, it's virtually impossible for CPLS partners to sell a course spanning more than 5 days - and it's simply impossible to cover both .NET fundamentals and a specific technology in-depth in a single course. Without a separate exam to look forward to at the end of a course, it will be much harder to sell students a set of courses leading to an MCTS exam. By all means, clean up the exam and move topics around. But please do keep a prerequisite exam covering basic .NET framework knowledge for the MCTS exams!Anonymous
April 24, 2009
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April 25, 2009
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May 03, 2009
Although 70-536 was a 'fundamentals' exam it covered a lot of stuff jnr developers do not have a grasp on. Code access security, app domains, threading etc. A lot of those topics are more difficult than the content of the mcts exams. Removing this core stuff from the cert track may not be ideal and the alternative is to repeat it throughout the other exams which can be frustrating. I have recently completed the 3.5 mcts exams and most had some ado.net questions sprinkled throughout even though there is now a separate exam for this. If anything 70-536 was more difficult than the more narrow mcts exams. One thing I did not like about 70-536 was that it did not count as anything on its own - not even an MCP. I got an ID but it was not clear if it counted for an MCP.Anonymous
May 04, 2009
I'm interested in upgrading my MCPD (70-458). I see that 70-566 was recently made available but not any study guides that I can find. So I have a question: If I do not upgrade to VS2008, can I upgrade with one exam to VS2010. Or will I have to take more than one exam since I skipped VS2008? Thanks!Anonymous
May 04, 2009
Hi Charles, We normally do not allow upgrade paths to skip technologies. So, there will not be a direct path from 2005 to 2010. GerryAnonymous
May 06, 2009
So for jumping (skip at least one generation of technology), it's easier to start from scratch, isn't it? Because if for example I want to upgrade from MCPD Windows 2005 to MCPD Windows 2010, I've to upgrade 2 times, from 2005 to 2008 and then 2008 to 2010.Anonymous
May 07, 2009
Hi Kengkaj, My recommendation to candidates is that they look at how many exams are required to acheive the certification they want, both from the perspective of starting from scratch or using the available upgrade paths. GerryAnonymous
May 09, 2009
I just started studying for MCPD - ASP.NET certification and I was wondering if I should take the 70-536 exam. Could I take 70-562 and 564 then take the VS2010 upgrade or will the upgrade only be available to those with MCPD certification (thus requiring the 70-536 exam)? ThanksAnonymous
May 09, 2009
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May 10, 2009
This may be a bit off-topic. But from MS's website it says "Typically, mainstream support is discontinued 7 to 10 years after the initial product release." http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/newgen/lifecycle/default.mspx But mainstream support for .NET frameworks are only about 5 years. For .NET framework 4.0, do you have plan to extend period of mainstream support?Anonymous
May 10, 2009
Hi Kengkaj, Neither myself nor Microsoft Learning control the product support lifecycle for Microsoft Products. You will have to ask the product groups that question. We simply follow their lifecycle support with our exams. GerryAnonymous
May 12, 2009
Hi Gerry, great blog but I'm confused! Ok so I was planning to do 70-536 then 70-562 to get a MCTS in NET Framework 3.5, ASP.NET Applications. From what I've read vs2010 and .net4.0 will be out between 2010-2011 so I assume the exams will be out by 2011, probably in less than 2 years. But from what I've read the 70-536 and 70-562 exams will only count towards .net 2.0 and 3.5, but for .net 4.0 there will be a whole set of new exams (and only an upgrade path frmo a MCPD which I'm not doing). Does that mean if I do 70-536 and 70-562 now, I will essentially have to do 2 more exams when the .net 4.0 certifications come out to bring me upto .net 4.0 standard?Anonymous
May 12, 2009
Hi David, thanks. We are changing the landscape a little bit for .NET 4 and moving forward. Exam 70-536 has been a prerequisite for MCTS on .NET 2.0 and 3.5. It will be removed for .NET 4.0. We are trying to streamline the certification process so that we can have a "one exam, one cert" mantra for the MCTS credentials. What this means is that there won't be upgrade exams for the MCTS because it will only require one exam to get the latest certification. So, if you pass your MCTS on .NET 3.5 and then later want to get the MCTS Web developer for .NET 4.0, you will only need to take one exam. BTW, my plan is to have all of my .NET 4.0 exams out in 2010. GerryAnonymous
May 12, 2009
Fantastic! Thats a lot clearer, I'll go for the .net 2.0 exam to get the foundation for the upcoming .net 4.0 exam... and I like the "one exam one cert" model, might be more work and revision but a lot more rewarding! (than doing a pre-requiste exam that counts for nothing on paper) Thanks againAnonymous
May 20, 2009
I'd like to second Morten's point about the value of 70-536 - I'm over ten years out of university and it was great to reconnect with some rigourous, building blocks stuff, for a platform that had lots of new things ideas like generics to settle in to. Whilst it's great to understand specific technolgies like ASP.net, it's better, and perhaps easier to build specifc knowledge on top of a sound basic knowledge - understanding partial classes from 70-536 made understanding the details of the ASP.net page model a lot easier. I can understand from a marketing point of view a prerequisite might be an extra boundary to entry, and you might get fewer people jumping on to the certification route; but those who do get on would be better equiped to do their job. I'll be bold and suggest you might even find the certifications getting a better reputation. Kind Regards,Anonymous
May 23, 2009
These are all great comments and support for 70-536 and I am impressed that everyone feels this strongly about the exam. Unfortunately, we get equal amounts of push in the other direction. It's always a balancing act. Exams will always have prerequisites and the technology exams for managed code will now require core .NET fundamentals as knowledge prior to undertaking the exams. Realistically, when you look at 70-536, it did not cover every important aspect of the framework. One exam can't possibly do that. So, how do determine the right amount of coverage? Why do we have content on sending email in that exam? Is that core to .NET? Not really, in my opinion. This decision is not a marketing one designed to sell more exams. It's a decision designed to simplify the .NET certification story that some already say is complicated. By leaving the 536 exam in the picture, it requires updating periodically that also leaves us open to issues around qualifications and versioning. GerryAnonymous
May 23, 2009
I have to chime in here and say I'm a little dissappointed with the decision to retire exam 70-536. I have now taken four of the five exams for the .Net 2.0 EAD, and found the 70-536 to be the most valuable and challenging exam so far. That said, I'm excited to see what's in store for the future, but I'm a little worried about the whole one exam -> earn credential model...Anonymous
May 26, 2009
I'm working with the Lakeland .NET User Group (www.lakelandug.net) to provide some programming fundamentals / intro OOP training. Between the career-changers and the college students at our host campus, quite a few people could use more time on the basics. If Microsoft is planning to test on something similar, it would help our marketing to advertise that fact. A tangible outcome, without having to learn the entire BCL first, certainly encourages attendance. Even if there is a few months' delay before the exam is released. Any anticipated dates? And will it be at all similar to the RampUp "Developer Basics" series?Anonymous
May 26, 2009
Hi Chris, While I can't give you specific dates or delivery platforms, I can tell you that we have created hour new exams around programming fundamentals including OOP, database fundamentals, Web application fundamentals and Windows application fundamentals. These are intended to act as a stepping stone to the MCTS exams. Again, no concrete dates yet but I will announce those here when they do launch. I suspect summer or early fall at the latest. GerryAnonymous
June 23, 2009
Will 70-536 be required for an MCPD certification for .NET 4.0? Does this mean that the .NET 4.0 Windows and Web MCPD certs will just require a single prerequisite plus 70-563?Anonymous
June 23, 2009
Hi Justin, No, the 536 requirement does not carry forward for .NET 4. It is still required for the .NET 2.0 and 3.5 tracks. I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence. For Windows developers on .NET 4, you will require an MCTS and an MCPD exam. Numbers to be determined. GerryAnonymous
August 07, 2009
Question: What does the term Enterprise Application Developer or Enterprise Developer mean to you? An accumulation of Microsoft technologies is one aspect. Some level of experience in each relevant subject area, with an ability to distinguish and abstract technologies for solutions and business. Another major aspect is adapting to change. Maybe one piece, e.g. "subject area", is missing or different. Recognizing a missing MS technology or creating a workaround with a different technology, e.g. open source or alternate vendor technology (non MS), is a requirement for an enterprise developer. Lastly, understanding the benefits and weaknesses, simplicity or complexity, and risks of maintaining legacy verses implementing new technology is required by an enterprise developer. That is about the shortest summary I can manage on Friday afternoon. :)Anonymous
August 13, 2009
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August 28, 2009
I think that retiring 70-536 is really a bad decisión. This is by far the most significative exam that allows to demonstrate a good level in .net and the one that males a difference when solving difficult programming problems. I totally agree with Morten and others in their viese about it. In my oppinion retiring it will lower the value of the certifications. You should enhance it, not retire it. Cheers JMAnonymous
September 07, 2009
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September 08, 2009
Dear NH Student, I'm replying to another post under the name of Scott as they seem to be from the same person. If not, then please let me know and I will answer your questions here. GerryAnonymous
September 22, 2009
The 70-536 exam was quite hard and I'm currently halfway through studying 70-562. I feel as though 70-536 was a waste of time now and that you've undervalued it. I'm very sure that many others will feel the same after putting so much effort into a course that others in the future will not need to do. You just down valued MCTS + MCPD 3.5 by saying 50%-33% of it respectively was either a mistake (possibly funding reasons) or not needed. I take it now since you're dropping an exam you'll have the budget to make MCPD training kits? Many developers are week in the areas it covers. Boooo! My two cents.Anonymous
September 22, 2009
Thanks for you booo Andy. GerryAnonymous
September 24, 2009
Illegitimi non carborundum :) Garry I really do like the exams / training kits your guys are releasing and I look forward to the v4 exams with great anticipation. Q) What does the term Enterprise Application Developer or Enterprise Developer mean to you? A) EAD for me sounds a bit more of a software guy where as ED sounds a bit networky.Anonymous
October 18, 2009
Why not have a separate .NET fundamentals exam, similar to the 70-536, but that is NOT a pre-requisite to the other MCTS exams and DOES give a separate certification? This way we could have the best of both worlds:
- We would still be following the simpler "one exam, one certification" mantra, since this exam would NOT be a pre-requisite to the other MCST exams.
- We would also still have a separate .NET fundamentals exam that would give its own certification and would be available for anyone interested in core .NET concepts. This certification could be used to prove that a candidate has understanding of core .NET fundamentals. Thanks, Leo
Anonymous
October 18, 2009
All good thoughts Leo, Thanks for the input and feedback. I can tell you that it won't happen for the immediate future, but perhaps next year. GerryAnonymous
October 20, 2009
I am pleased to hear about the 1-exam : 1-cert decision. Even as a consultant developer, where certifications are important for marketability, the 70-536's inability to produce a credential was always a barrier to me even beginning to take the WPF, WCF, ASP.NET exams. I know these technologies to the point where I would just take the exam to get the credential, despite the doubt I hear of about the value in Microsoft certs these days. But these exams require one exam, and then another exam, and money, to get a single credential. So my decision is to wait until the cost of a cert meets my expectations, and it finally looks so.Anonymous
October 26, 2009
Well, I just started few days ago learning 70-536 for gaining MCPD. Do you think I should wait for new 4.0 paths ? Could you estimate when are 4.0 becomming available (yearquarter) ? Thanks in advance.Anonymous
January 15, 2010
Garry, I have to agree with others about 70-536. This exam does cover basics of framework in detail that no other exam does. Removing it from MCTS was probably just a marketing decision to get more people interested in getting "Microsoft Certifications with .Net on it". You'll end up with ".Net certified" programmers who will have little or no knowledge of .Net framework or programming concepts in general. MCPD should be much harder to be relevant. Why don't you create 2 or 3 different levels of MCPD certifications, say "junior", "intermediate" and "senior" levels. This way your certifications would be easier to understand by hiring managers and recruiters. You know, "senior certificate holders" can be matched to senior positions, etc. Your "senior" level certifications should be hard to get by CS or Engineering graduates with 5-10 years of development experience. That would really make your certificates valuable. PeterAnonymous
January 19, 2010
Exam 70-536 is back for 4.0 on public demand. We are all hoping that Gerry's next post would have this subject!Anonymous
January 20, 2010
Binoj, Sorry to disappoint but no, it is not. GerryAnonymous
February 01, 2010
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February 01, 2010
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February 15, 2010
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February 15, 2010
Hi Jarrod, That will be worldwide availability in English. Other languages will be later in the year. GerryAnonymous
March 09, 2010
All the comments are really interesting and informative. I am very curious to work in VS 2010. Right now i am working in VS 2008, and its just awesome. I have taken up exam 536 and 528 (web based) successfully, and got my certification too, in June 2008. Now i would like to do certifications in Dot net 4.0. Where can i learn? When can i take up the exam?